QuantNetwork Re-write in Php

[Phat Loc]

Any thoughts?

[amit]

Why can't we keep using the same code that we have currently? When the site moves to Baruch hosting, won't we have root access to the machine: so that we can install all the necessary software?

Let me know if you need any help.

[Phat Loc]

We won't have root access to the machine. The QuantNetwork website currently running on a combination of two web servers Apache and Tomcat. Everything aside from this forum is written in Struts/JSP.

I didn't want to write the forum from scratch therefore I used phpBB. I used Tomcat because I orginally intended QuantNetwork to host server side Java programs written by students. To date there haven't been any contributions along this line. Maybe the learning curve is too high and the effort isn't doesn't merit it.

If everything is written in PHP it will be much easier to move to a different server. Since we only have to configure 1 server instead of 2.

[amit]

No root access!? That is going to be very constraining in the long run. Which is why I have doubts about the PHP rewrite approach. Also, I think Phat's idea of hosting server side code is very viable in the medium-long term. So it would be a shame to jettison all that functionality.

It seems to me that we should be making a big push to get our own server within the Baruch domain. But I am not familiar with the college bureaucracy and hence don't know how easy that would be.

[cw202]

Amit,


Technically speaking, you don't need root access to control server applications. You also don't want to get into a system admin role. Root access will bestow that responsibility upon you. More importantly, we can blame the system admin people when the code doesn't work. :twisted: .

You probably don't want to deploy any server side code on a slow hobby app server like TomCat. Whatever, you plan to do with jsps and servlets, you can probably do with PHP and/or Perl. And if for some reason you want true server side functionality like session management and EJB functionality, something like OrionServer would be better than TomCat. Its
the fastest J2EE app server and free for nonprofit use.

-cw

[elm]

I must disagree with your tomcat comment.
I have run tomcat for several years and it is a fast, although not natively implemented, and easy to use servlet/jsp container. Its level of performance would be indistinguishable between the other servers for running a forum.
It is also the reference implementaion for the servlet and jsp specs to which all other vendors must conform.
Lastly, it only takes ~ 10 minutes to decompress, install and bootstrap which is orders of magnitude smaller than say weblogic.

Also, the Apache Geronimo project aims to address the open source j2ee container void. It is currently in its first iteration - and is obviously free.
Link to story: http://apache.slashdot.org/apache/04/04/29/1520209.shtml?tid=148&tid=108&tid=2
Link to geronimo: http://geronimo.apache.org/

[cw202]

I have run tomcat for several years and it is a fast, although not natively implemented, and easy to use servlet/jsp container. Its level of erformance would be indistinguishable between the other servers for running a forum.
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TomCat is fine for a forum, maybe overkill. It is not robust enough to handle intensive transactions. No production and transaction intensive site would run TomCat. And as you stated, this is just a base implementation of the SUN's servlet and jsp container. Its really meant for testing servlet and jsp files. Its also the minimum specs other app servers must adhere to. Other app servers have optimized albeit propiertary code base and VM's for handling transactions , i.e. highly tuned thread management.



Lastly, it only takes ~ 10 minutes to decompress, install and bootstrap which is orders of magnitude smaller than say weblogic.
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You can do the same with Orion in under 5 min. And its free for nonprofit use. Why waste time playing with a open source beta appserver when you can run a far superior production app server, with built in ejb container.

Also, the Apache Geronimo project aims to address the open source j2ee container void. It is currently in its first iteration - and is obviously free.
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Its slow and unstable. The other EJB containers are light years ahead of this thing. Again, its a hobbist implementation.

[amit]

To follow up on cw202's response to my post:
How much work is involved in day-to-day administration of a linux server. I can't imagine it would be more than a couple of hours per week. I am sure we can find students who are willing to take this on. I myself am ready to share this responsibility.

One of the ideas I have for the site is to run a cvs/subversion server to host the student code for homeworks/projects. My team is using an external cvs server for this purpose and it beats exchanging .zip files on every small change. As we go along there may be other things we may want to have. Without admin access to the server, such ideas are non-starters.

[Phat Loc]

Everything on QuantNetwork aside from the forum is in JSP. The server at Baruch can run PHP. Not JSP. That means the rest of QuantNetwork needs to re-written in PHP.

We will not have admin rights to the webserver. That means we write the website in PHP. Then upload it a dev server then the admin at Baruch will move it to production.

This is a request for volunteers to write QuantNetwork in PHP. That is to program the site, test, and move it to Baruch. There isn't any server admin involved.

Phat

[Phat Loc]

Hosting it offsite would be a good idea too. However the setup I have in my house is realy difficult to port to an online web hosting service. Once everything is in PHP then it will be possible to online web hosting service or Baruch. That is up to then current QuantNetwork officers to decide. :)

[dstefan]

Quite clearly, $80 is a small amount that either QN or the math department will pay for the web hosting, if this is what we end up doing.

Actually, I would rather like an address such as www.quantnetwork.net
than something like math.baruch.cuny.edu/quantnetwork

The problem of re-writing in php still stands, but we might get three or four people who would be willing to do parts of the big job.

[Andy]

Well, we have some update after almost 2 years :D

Phat has moved quantnet to a hosting service in early 2005 and managed it till early 2006 when the forum was defaced while he was away.
This is when us incoming students stepped in. I'm looking forward to working with the club officers and incoming students to transform quantnet to a much more fun place to be (whatever it may mean).
We are planning to move quantnet to another hosting server soon and will build a platform that robust and stable enough for future members to contribute without the daily, hand-on inteference from the admins.