On Line Courses on Financial Engg

[rajagopalp]

Please post your views of pros and cons on online courses avilable in Financial Engineering fields from diffrent universities

[Yuriy]

Are there any? It would be interesting to find out what they offer.

[rajagopalp]

Are there any? It would be interesting to find out what they offer.
Yes Columbia and Chicago universities are offering online certificate courses on Fin Engg

[Andy]

Yes Columbia and Chicago universities are offering online certificate courses on Fin Engg
:-k
If you can tell me why you want to do an online version of the degree instead of the traditional one, I will be able to tell you pro/con of the two approaches.
As for the online versions between those schools, it will depend on what you want to do with it. Most people here haven't heard of the online versions and I'm not sure how the firms/recruiters/etc will react when they see someone graduate with an online degree.

Then, there is question of whether the online program is accredited. Most are not. How they are regarded compared to the traditional ones ? Probably not very highly.

[GusTsahas]

Columbia University through their video network has a full 30 credit Master of Science Degree in Operations Research specializing in Methods of Finance which is quite impressive for distance learning. The focus is on FE and mathematical finance courses. Also impressive is the cost per three credit course of about $4,000!!!

http://www.cvn.columbia.edu/deg/ieor/mfms.php (http://www.cvn.columbia.edu/deg/ieor/mfms.php)


The other MS distance learning degree I had read about was from the University of Reading in the UK, MSc in Financial Risk Management..

http://www.reading.ac.uk/Study/courses/taught/mscfinancialriskmanagement.asp (http://www.reading.ac.uk/Study/courses/taught/mscfinancialriskmanagement.asp)

[Andy]

Also impressive is the cost per three credit course of about $4,000!!!
Milk that cashcow !!! That's more than the tuition for a semester at Baruch.
Columbia has really oversold their name quite a bit. Next thing would be to open branches in China, India and telecast the lectures there while billing the same tuition.
Oh, wait, they may have already done that.

[RussianMike]

Didn't Dominic post something about Reading a while back?

[rajagopalp]

:-k
If you can tell me why you want to do an online version of the degree instead of the traditional one, I will be able to tell you pro/con of the two approaches.
As for the online versions between those schools, it will depend on what you want to do with it. Most people here haven't heard of the online versions and I'm not sure how the firms/recruiters/etc will react when they see someone graduate with an online degree.

Then, there is question of whether the online program is accredited. Most are not. How they are regarded compared to the traditional ones ? Probably not very highly.

For Working Professionals On line courses will be convient though they are expensive right?
Most of thse courses are acrredited..but they may not be that popular in recruting arena as you mentioned.

[Andy]

For Working Professionals On line courses will be convient though they are expensive right?
Most of thse courses are acrredited..but they may not be that popular in recruting arena as you mentioned.
The biggest benefits of doing a traditional program are the networking opportunities and the career service that the program provides.
After you get the online degree, then what ? Are you able to tap into the alumni network ? Since you have no face time with anyone in the program, networking is NILL.
I would seriously think twice before I enroll in an online degree. Studying part time in a real MFE program would be much better for working professionals. You should definitely ask to talk to the graduates of those online programs and see how it works for them.

[alain]

from my own experience, online classes, video conference classe, remote learning, etc are a disaster!!! but it all depends of the person and the subject I guess. I wouldn't enroll in any sort of hard core math/engineering/quantitative subject if it is offered remotely

[GusTsahas]

In addition to the networking advantages pointed out by Andy, some courses are quite hard to complete the work totally on your own even with the bulletin boards provided by the programs. The team approach in solving some of the homeworks certainly helped me pass probability and stochastics.

However, not everyone has the resources we take for granted so I certainly agree that for people that cannot attend a bricks and mortar school due to travel or other commitments should consider online programs ....... BTW, SUNY has some very cost effective programs at the Bachelors and even at the Masters level.... not FE, but better then nothing!!

Online Degrees | Online College Courses | Online Education | Distance Learning | Online Education (http://sln.suny.edu/index.html)

[Yuriy]

The biggest benefits of doing a traditional program are the networking opportunities and the career service that the program provides.
After you get the online degree, then what ? Are you able to tap into the alumni network ? Since you have no face time with anyone in the program, networking is NILL.

Andy, I have a feeling that none of the certificate programs provides any help with job search (at least, that was the way at CMU), and I am almost certain that there won't be any help from an online certificate program.

[Yuriy]

In my opinion, an online version of any program (not just FE) is only good if it is much more beneficial than its regular equivalent. That is, it should either be cheaper or give more hours of instruction per week (or something else).

[kimbol]

while it may be more fancy if the cyber can be an interactive media, a two way communication.
the value of a on campus learning is the philosophy passed down from a professor to the pupil. just a download hardly provide feedback and hence a 'loop' in exchange of idea.

[gabriel]

I've looked into online courses and am considering them. Columbia's has a lot of appeal to someone like me, who is midcareer. I can take courses both online and in campus and the degree is indistinguishable from the more normal ones. Plus, it's a lot easier to get into than the traditional programs.

Of course, you give up the networking which for me is not a big deal but for others it may be.

[rajagopalp]

I've looked into online courses and am considering them. Columbia's has a lot of appeal to someone like me, who is midcareer. I can take courses both online and in campus and the degree is indistinguishable from the more normal ones. Plus, it's a lot easier to get into than the traditional programs.

Of course, you give up the networking which for me is not a big deal but for others it may be.

How is recognization to Columbia On line course in Job market?
Will it use ful to switch Jobs?

[gabriel]

The degree you get is the same as the traditional Columbia degree, nothing in it says it is online. So it's as good as any other Columbia degree in terms of getting a job. But if you are not already part of the industry I am not sure I would recommend it since you miss on the very important networking aspects.

[Yuriy]

The degree you get is the same as the traditional Columbia degree, nothing in it says it is online. So it's as good as any other Columbia degree in terms of getting a job. But if you are not already part of the industry I am not sure I would recommend it since you miss on the very important networking aspects.

I am not sure if it is the same as other Columbia degrees. Even the two Columbia programs (FE and FinMath) are rated differently. It might be the case that the online degree is unknown to employers and they won't be as happy to hire online graduates. Some time should pass before we know the ranking. Although, it is obvious that Columbia's reputation does play a role.

[gabriel]

To be clear, I think online or distance programs make sense only to some people. Someone just starting or trying to change careers probably will be better served in a traditional program.

Having said that I should point out that too much emphasis is placed on these rankings. Even among well-established careers paths, like business or law, the rankings are pretty ridiculous. Yes, Harvard Business School is better than some regional college but does anybody really think there is a measurable difference between every institution? I know plenty of people who go to NYU's part-time MBA program rather than apply to Wharton or HBS because, since they already work in investment banks, there is little net benefit from going to the higher ranked institutions.

With respect to the quant world, I am not a quant but have worked on securitization for years. I just turned down a job offer in CDOs. I have both been interviewed and conducted job interviews many times and I have never discussed the school someone went to or been asked about it. Once you have even a little experience all most employers care about is what you know or have done.

Columbia's online MFE degree is from that University's Engineering Dept. It does not say anywhere in the title that it is online. Unless you tell an employer he would never know. The title is different from the traditional one, though. The online gets you a MS in Oper Research: Methods in Finance, the other is an MS in Financial Engineering and both are from the Dept of Industrial Engineering and Operations Research. Since the online program allows you to take any course you want in campus (if you live or work nearby obviously) the end result is that you can take exactly the same courses as the MSFE program if you want, something you can always mention in an interview, should it ever come up. What's great about this program is that it allows you to take courses online, in campus, or any combination you wish.

[dstefan]

To be clear, I think online or distance programs make sense only to some people. Someone just starting or trying to change careers probably will be better served in a traditional program.

Having said that I should point out that too much emphasis is placed on these rankings. Even among well-established careers paths, like business or law, the rankings are pretty ridiculous. Yes, Harvard Business School is better than some regional college but does anybody really think there is a measurable difference between every institution? I know plenty of people who go to NYU's part-time MBA program rather than apply to Wharton or HBS because, since they already work in investment banks, there is little net benefit from going to the higher ranked institutions.

With respect to the quant world, I am not a quant but have worked on securitization for years. I just turned down a job offer in CDOs. I have both been interviewed and conducted job interviews many times and I have never discussed the school someone went to or been asked about it. Once you have even a little experience all most employers care about is what you know or have done.

Columbia's online MFE degree is from that University's Engineering Dept. It does not say anywhere in the title that it is online. Unless you tell an employer he would never know. The title is different from the traditional one, though. The online gets you a MS in Oper Research: Methods in Finance, the other is an MS in Financial Engineering and both are from the Dept of Industrial Engineering and Operations Research. Since the online program allows you to take any course you want in campus (if you live or work nearby obviously) the end result is that you can take exactly the same courses as the MSFE program if you want, something you can always mention in an interview, should it ever come up. What's great about this program is that it allows you to take courses online, in campus, or any combination you wish.

Very pertinent comments - thanks, Gabriel!

[gabriel]

Since the Director of the program has replied let me add something. The reason I am reading this forum is that I am considering doing an MFE and high on my list is Baruch's program. Right now I am getting up to speed on some math and C++ that I need to start. The reason I am considering Columbia is not because it's an Ivy. It's because I travel a lot for work. I am out at least a week a month and sometimes two. Any program I apply to has to give me flexibility to miss classes every so often. Ideally I would want a program where I can go to campus when in the city but have the means to remain up to speed if I miss a class.

So if Baruch ever decides to go that route please let me know!

:)

[fixedincomenyc]

To be clear, I think online or distance programs make sense only to some people. Someone just starting or trying to change careers probably will be better served in a traditional program.

Having said that I should point out that too much emphasis is placed on these rankings. Even among well-established careers paths, like business or law, the rankings are pretty ridiculous. Yes, Harvard Business School is better than some regional college but does anybody really think there is a measurable difference between every institution? I know plenty of people who go to NYU's part-time MBA program rather than apply to Wharton or HBS because, since they already work in investment banks, there is little net benefit from going to the higher ranked institutions.

With respect to the quant world, I am not a quant but have worked on securitization for years. I just turned down a job offer in CDOs. I have both been interviewed and conducted job interviews many times and I have never discussed the school someone went to or been asked about it. Once you have even a little experience all most employers care about is what you know or have done.

Columbia's online MFE degree is from that University's Engineering Dept. It does not say anywhere in the title that it is online. Unless you tell an employer he would never know. The title is different from the traditional one, though. The online gets you a MS in Oper Research: Methods in Finance, the other is an MS in Financial Engineering and both are from the Dept of Industrial Engineering and Operations Research. Since the online program allows you to take any course you want in campus (if you live or work nearby obviously) the end result is that you can take exactly the same courses as the MSFE program if you want, something you can always mention in an interview, should it ever come up. What's great about this program is that it allows you to take courses online, in campus, or any combination you wish.


Well said.

I just wanted to add that you may benefit from the networking opportunities available by doing an classroom cirriculum.

[Andy]

Any program I apply to has to give me flexibility to miss classes every so often. Ideally I would want a program where I can go to campus when in the city but have the means to remain up to speed if I miss a class.

So if Baruch ever decides to go that route please let me know!
Baruch has been doing that for the last several years ;)
We should do a better job letting people know about our unique features :)

I thought you may be interested to know that all the course material, lecture notes, homework assignments are available online 24/7 and sometimes prior to the class. As a student, you have access to past courses discussion, past homework, etc...you can post questions 24/7 and it will be answered by your classmates, TA, professors throughout the day.

Our students communicate among themselves and with the teaching assistants, faculty via our online network. We discuss homework, projects and work in team so as long as you have internet connection, you are never far from the action.

Asides from the benefit of a tradition programs, our students benefit from an active community. What you see here is a part of of a huge online network where homework discussion are being exchanged at any given moment.

Maybe we can videotape the lectures and open an online program as well. I don't know how the online programs work but I don't think you can get any interactive than whatever we have here :)

[Yuriy]

The reason I am considering Columbia is not because it's an Ivy. It's because I travel a lot for work. I am out at least a week a month and sometimes two. Any program I apply to has to give me flexibility to miss classes every so often. Ideally I would want a program where I can go to campus when in the city but have the means to remain up to speed if I miss a class.

So if Baruch ever decides to go that route please let me know!


There are several schools that have lecture videotaping capabilities in their programs. I know at least two. You can download and watch lectures from anywhere in the world and not attend a single class (except exams). And I would very much like to have this feature introduced at Baruch.

In the meantime, as Andy mentioned, our MFE program at Baruch College has this forum where we can have discussions of various things related to classwork.

[dstefan]

Since the Director of the program has replied let me add something. The reason I am reading this forum is that I am considering doing an MFE and high on my list is Baruch's program. Right now I am getting up to speed on some math and C++ that I need to start. The reason I am considering Columbia is not because it's an Ivy. It's because I travel a lot for work. I am out at least a week a month and sometimes two. Any program I apply to has to give me flexibility to miss classes every so often. Ideally I would want a program where I can go to campus when in the city but have the means to remain up to speed if I miss a class.

So if Baruch ever decides to go that route please let me know!

:)

Gabriel - it all depends on your background, but missing a week at a time regularly is, generally speaking, going to create problems. We have a currnt part-time student who is also doing a fair bit of traveling, I could put you in contact wit him. pm me if interested.

At the moment, we do not plan to post video lectures online (and we do not tape the lecture anyway). I do not expect to offer an online degree in the foreseeable future.

Dan

[gabriel]

Thanks for all the responses. I understand Baruch doesn't offer online coursework so I will have to decide if what is offered online, as mentioned by Andy, will be enough for me to keep up while traveling.

[finssite]

Hello,

My main background is in computer science and want to grow in the area of financial engineering. I've identified two online programs, at Columbia CVN - Columbia Video Network (http://www.cvn.columbia.edu/cert/fe_cert.php) and Stevens WebCampus.Stevens:: Financial Engineering (http://webcampus.stevens.edu/courses/financial.html) I request your feedback on the same and information on other good programs.


Thank You,
Shakti

[GusTsahas]

If you need to take the FE degree online, I'd choose the Columbia degree over Stevens. The Columbia CVN has been on the market quite a while and the cost difference to Stevens is too small to overcome the "name" advantage that Columbia enjoys.

I am assuming you have read this tread and understand that most (FE) graduates recommend a bricks and mortar school over the online experience unless you do not have the option due to personal circumstances.

[Yuriy]

Definitely choose Columbia over Stevens if no other options are available.
Also, carefully check the courses they offer. Do a degree at Columbia but keep an eye on Stevens. Maybe Stevens will let you take one course if it is not offered at Columbia.

[DominiConnor]

The Wilmott CQF can be done remotely, and is currently around 100 lectures, all of which are videoed. There apparently has been quite a hard debate in academic circles about students taking recordings. My personal view is that you can't stop them, so live with it, but not everyone agrees.
As a lecturer I do find it a little more stressful, as any blunder is there for all time to be dissected.

I have to declare an interest that I teach most of the C++ component.

7city USA: Financial Markets Training (http://www.7city.com/index.php)

To the best of my knowledge there is no cheap, online finance course.

[Sam Harris]

I'm half way through the Columbia Online program, and I must agree with all here on the disadvantages. $4k a class hits the wallet hard, and no networking is rough. However, you've all missed the tremendous advantages of online.

(1) You can pause and rewind your professor. How many times has your mind drifted in class and it snaps back only to realize that the prof has changed subjects and you missed the bridge. You spend the rest of the lecture furiously scribbling with no idea what's going on. With a videotaped lecture, you just rewind and play it again. Five times if necessary!

(2) Your time is not under someone else's control. I have a wife, hobbies, friends, and a full time job. I tried a night-school approach and it drove me nuts. Some lectures were material I understood and didn't need 4hrs of rehashing, whereas others were really hard for me to grasp and I felt like I was being dragged behind a truck for 4 hrs straight. With a taped lecture and nearly infinite control over my time, I can tailor the entire degree to my personal pace.

(3) If you travel, there is no other option. I am gone 200 days a year and all I need is my laptop to be in school. You can't do that with brick and mortar.

(4) Opportunity cost of no job. I make the NYC equivalent of $174k a year and my education is 60% funded by my employer. So, my out-of-pocket cost is less than nill... it's net positive!

(5) If you live in or around NYC, any possible downside to Columbia's online degree is negligible. You can attend all the social functions, all the recruiting fairs, all the employer presentations, the professional lectures, etc. I just happen to live in a desert, thousands of miles from any reputable institution of higher learning.

[dstefan]

I recently looked more closely at the CQF curriculum and was quite impressed. More impressive is the examination system, and the class ranking with the distinction being offered for the best people. Also, the networking opportunities are much better than for any other option for on line courses.

[VladimirBunicu]

There are several schools that have lecture videotaping capabilities in their programs. I know at least two.


Yuriy, is MIT's Open Course Ware (http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/web/home/home/index.htm) one of these? What's the other one, Wilmott?

[Yuriy]

Yuriy, is MIT's Open Course Ware (http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/web/home/home/index.htm) one of these? What's the other one, Wilmott?

No, MIT was not one of them, neither was Columbia :) I was talking about Carnegie Mellon University and the University of Florida, both of which I happened to attend.
CMU tapes all of their lectures in Computational Finance program. The University of Florida tapes some of its lectures; they have hybrid courses that you can either attend or watch online.

[finssite]

Hi DominiConnor,

Thank You for the information on Wilmott CQF program. I'm a Java programmer with little knowledge in C++ language. I do have a computer science education and if need be can pick up on C++ too. So could you please provide me your perspectives on C++ vs Java for FE and whether Java has any roles to play in FE?


Thank You,
Shakti

[Yuriy]

I'm half way through the Columbia Online program, and I must agree with all here on the disadvantages. $4k a class hits the wallet hard, and no networking is rough. However, you've all missed the tremendous advantages of online.

Sam, I'm just wondering, how do you take exams at Columbia? :)

[alain]

...if need be can pick up on C++ too

I don't think C++ is something you can pick up and run with. Java is very forgiven to programmers mistakes (except maybe in multithreading programming)... C++ will make you pay dearly for any mistake that you make.

[Sam Harris]

Sam, I'm just wondering, how do you take exams at Columbia? :)

My boss at work "proctors" the exams. The University e-mails him the exam and he prints it out then faxes it back to them. He used to have to overnight the physical exam, but now only has to keep in on file for the rest of the semester in case the fax didn't work.

If you live in NYC, the University provides proctors, or you can take the exam with your brick and mortar classmates.

Again, I think taking the online degree while living in NYC is the best of both worlds. I'm seriously considering living there for my last semester (to help with the job search).

[kean]

DCFC, do you think CQF really worths the $$.

[Yuriy]

My boss at work "proctors" the exams. The University e-mails him the exam and he prints it out then faxes it back to them. He used to have to overnight the physical exam, but now only has to keep in on file for the rest of the semester in case the fax didn't work.

If you live in NYC, the University provides proctors, or you can take the exam with your brick and mortar classmates.

Again, I think taking the online degree while living in NYC is the best of both worlds. I'm seriously considering living there for my last semester (to help with the job search).

Very nice :) How does your boss feel about you leaving the company? He basically is helping you find another job and leave the company.

I have a feeling that in a few years, 50% of degrees, especially in business, will be awarded online.

[Sam Harris]

Very nice :) How does your boss feel about you leaving the company? He basically is helping you find another job and leave the company.

I have a feeling that in a few years, 50% of degrees, especially in business, will be awarded online.

My boss has encouraged this decision. He told me, "You're too young to start giving up on your dreams. If your dream is to work on Wall St, then dammit, go work on Wall St!"

[Yuriy]

My boss has encouraged this decision. He told me, "You're too young to start giving up on your dreams. If your dream is to work on Wall St, then dammit, go work on Wall St!"

Sam, that is excellent! I wish everyone's boss would be like that :)
Actually, my boss was also supporting me in getting an MS degree. She had let me shift my schedule so I could leave work at 4:30pm to get to school on time for 6pm class. My commute was 1h 15min. It is nothing compared to my present commute that averages 3h 30min :) each way.

[joe_bradley]

I've actually taken 3 courses online (non-MFE) through UC Berkely, and I presume my experience is similar to other online courses. They have their plusses and minuses. Sam Harris did a good job pointing out some of the plusses.

One minus that nobody talked about is that the self-paced nature of the courses can actually work -against- you sometimes. I have a packed schedule already, what with a demanding job and other responsibilities, and a self-paced course, rather than making things easier, makes it that much harder for me to to say "no" to a lot of things in my life that are urgent, but in the long run not as important to me.

One other ironic thing is that all of the courses had discussion boards but oddly enough there was close to zero student interation (unless that was actually given as part of an assignment). There's more life on quantnet course thread then there was on any of these online courses.

What it is great for is when you have a gap in your knowledge and you know you need a -real- course with some depth, not just some 3-day seminar, and you can't deal with an actual university course with their fixed-schedule course dates and non-matriculation paperwork. For this reason I'm sure I'll be taking online courses again in the future.

[Andy]

There's more life on quantnet course thread then there was on any of these online courses. OMG ! I wish you were part of last year refresher and Dan's courses. People literally posted back and forth in real time when discussing the HW. It was madness and memorable at the same time. (I probably got more than half of my post count from posting in the HW threads.)

If those online programs can get their online discussion boards anywhere close to what we have, they would have attracted plenty. :)

[Yuriy]

Actually, there is one plus of not having discussion boards. If you get stuck on a problem and have no one to ask, you try a million ways to solve it. By following those million ways, you inevitably read some extra material, learn other things that you would not learn if you were given a hint earlier on.

Last year (before I came to this forum) I had learned so much about physics when trying to figure out what RMS was for Structured Finance class :)

[joe_bradley]

RMS = Richard M Stallman
:D

just kidding

Yuri, you've got a point. As for me, there comes a time when flailing around on a problem by yourself is no longer getting you nowhere. Depending on the subject, if I'm not getting anywhere in a half-hour I need to get help or sleep on it b/c my time is better spent elsewhere. (But yeah, it's no fun to have a bunch of threads consisting of people asking about stuff they could've looked up themselves.)

[David Boney]

The National University of Singapore has an online Master of Science in Financial Engineering. This looks like a respectable program.

NUS Risk Management Institute (http://www.rmi.nus.edu.sg/mscdislearning/intro.html)

[Ahmad Arif]

I think online education is the way to go. In the next 5 years time, most of the programs will be onlin

[Lugh]

The Datasim Distance Learning on C++ and Computational Finance is here:

Datasim Financial | Resources for Computational Finance | Distance Learning (http://www.datasimfinancial.com/distancelearning.php)

[alain]

I think online education is the way to go. In the next 5 years time, most of the programs will be onlin
I tried on-line classes and I hated them, too impersonal. On-line classes are not for everyone. I rather sit in a class with other students and interact with them and a professor standing in front of the room.

Also, you lose another source of networking when you do online programs.

[foquant]

I have done a number of online courses, and a proper eval of the idea is too dependent upon the individual program/course to be able to create a generalized statement.

in the courses I completed, the discussion board was very lively, with professors, tas, and students actively posting questions, links, and comments.

I would be so bold as to say that in some of these courses, the discussion was significantly better than what is realized in class, and there are a number of reasons for this.

1. forum postings have permanence, so if you say something stupid, everyone will see it for a long time as opposed to forget it as may happen in a large lecture hall. this, at least with my exposure, ensured that postings were well developed thoughts
2. postings can pull in outside media including file attachments and links, so current events and full length documents can be more explicitly referenced, and sourced by the students (not just the professor)
3. students weren't pressured to make comments that would be scored, as happens in many live graduate level courses. I've got a buddy at a top 5 school and another at a top 25 school right now... both of them have to make 1 comment per class session, which is graded from 1 to 5. both have said you have many students who repeat comments or who say things that are irrelevant or poorly developed, just to hit their 1 comment.

the networking is what got hit the hardest, which has been commented on - but, I think everyone involved understood that impact, so we all maintained very open email lines. very much like any other forum, such as this one.

all said and done, I think it really depends upon the people involved. active forum members make many of the detractions seem less relevant or material, while inactive members highlight the weaknesses of online courses.

[MikeK]

I've taken a few courses at the Stevens Inst of Technology WebCampus, and must say I was impressed. The classes, though online, still meet every week at a preset time, for about 2 hours. The instructor talks and writes on a whiteboard, asks questions, and students participate actively. I've taken a math finance class at NYU and actually had worse experiences (one big miss was that the class was so overcrowded).

I am also mid-career and currently make significantly more than the highest salaries posted on the websites of Carnegie Mellon, Columbia, etc. I wanted to find a program that wouldn't cause me to change careers (as I'm already in the investment world) but rather help advance it. I chose Stevens because of the flexibility in their program (you can chose between a quantitative track or 2 different technology tracks). I don't plan on doing all of my courses online, maybe half (mainly because the electives I want are outside of the FE department).

I realize I'll be missing the networking component of traditional programs. Obviously, that's a downside. However, from what I can tell the part-time programs at some of the better schools do not provide career placement services.

As I take more classes at Stevens I'll let you know what I think. But, like I said, so far I'm pretty impressed.

[aajoshi]

Do NOT spend Money on Columbia's CVN. I started with their Corporate Finance course and wanted to do Asset pricing ones. I had one of worst experience of my life. They charge $3k+ for a course and do not have user friendly infrastructure to provide distance education. Also the professor many times do not actually conduct the course. I met a real piece of crap who was "managing" the course and unfortunately suffered a loss of $3k because of such (mis) management.

I am not dissuading against MSFE @ Columbia as I feel it is one of the best if you do it in class. I am myself considering that as on option but surely (1000 times) dissuade any body from using CVN. I truely hate CVN.

[jascia shen]

I am just wondering the Columbia CVN program will offer you the same degree?

Will you get all the opportunities like career services as full-time student? (I am living near NYC)

How hard is it to get into the program?

[Andy]

I am just wondering the Columbia CVN program will offer you the same degree?
From everything I read here, you will get the same kind of degree as regular students. This is where the similarity ends.
Will you get all the opportunities like career services as full-time student? (I am living near NYC)
This is where the brick-mortar and online program differ. It would make sense that regular students have access to all the internship, career service while CVN students may get some, if any.

[MikeK]

This is where the brick-mortar and online program differ. It would make sense that regular students have access to all the internship, career service while CVN students may get some, if any.

Some regular brick-and-mortar programs also restrict their career services. For example, from NYU's website for Financial Mathematics regarding part-time students:

"This can include taking 4 courses per term but the availability of resume advice and job placement assistance is restricted to those admitted full time."

Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences NYU (http://math.nyu.edu/financial_mathematics/content/05_prospectiveStudents/04.html#parttime)

I'm not sure why they would exclude part-time students.

-Mike

[Andy]

It's a little known fact about NYU program. I just hope that part-time students there get in knowing full well the fact. Maybe those who study PT there already hold a job so the need for job is eliminated ?
Anyway, different programs have different rules/approaches about placement assistant. At Baruch MFE, the little difference between FT and PT students is that PT students are not taking 4 courses a semester. Other than that, every single student receives the same kind of help and resources when it comes to job, study, etc.

[jascia shen]

Also I guess for NYU they want to keep the placement rate high. With PT students it might be tough to place all of them. Just guess.

[DominiConnor]

DCFC, do you think CQF really worths the $$.
I have first to declare an interest, in that I teach C++ on the CQF, and my business partner is Paul Wilmott.
If you are within the bounds of not knowing this stuff already, but knowing enough to understand it, then the expectation for most people is that it pays back.

A more difficult question is whether it is the optimal investment in time and money.
There are other choices, most of which are more expensive, but it is still far from free.
Also it is a commitment in time which should not be ignored.

I think that's driven a lot by personal circumstances and ambitions.

When someone asks me, whether it is right for them, I generally have one of N replies:

0: A few are such clear cases that I tell them to do the CQF. That is only a tiny %. I always advise going to an open evening first, and typically set them up with an alumnus to talk about whether it is right for them.

1: Some simply don't have the background to get traction.
2: You're on the edge, take the maths paper, and/or do some more study in maths.
3: Some people have from/to that I can't properly model, so I put them in touch with an alumnus like them.
4: Some actually know enough that the marginal value is quite low.
5: Some want to do things that the CQF does not help with. For instance compliance, sales, or accountancy type work.

As a well known headhunter, I feel ethically obliged to give it to people straight, so I don't really "sell" at all.

[Ahmad Arif]

I am considering Steven's Institute for FE program. Is it really good?. Is it worth the money?. How are the professors?. How long do you think it would take on average to complete the program?.

[MikeK]

I am considering Steven's Institute for FE program. Is it really good?. Is it worth the money?. How are the professors?. How long do you think it would take on average to complete the program?.

I'm in my second class there and so far its been good. The program itself is solid; unfortunately, its overshadowed by better-known programs in the NYC area--Baruch, NYU, Columbia. Here's my take:

Pros-
* A well-respected engineering school, esp in the NY/NJ area.
* School is heavily recruited by most of the major Wall Street firms, esp the engineering, math and computer science graduates (Morgan Stanley is sponsoring their career fair this year, Barclays did last year I think)
* Some classes can be taken on their WebCampus, which is good for working folks who need to balance work/school/home, etc. That's precisely why I chose their program.
* Classes (at least the 2 I've taken) are taught well. The courses are very challenging.
* Some FE courses are offered during the summer, so you can utilize 3 semesters and finish your degree sooner.

Cons-
* Its a new program, so little is known about it. They don't have admissions stats or job placement info posted yet, so not much is known about how graduates fair in the job market. From talking with other students, I hear they do well, but Stevens needs to post that info. My guess is that its getting more competitive, as more and more qualified students apply after they are turned away from the schools like Baruch (which has a 14% acceptance rate).
* They need more courses geared specifically to FE. For example, they have a class in PDE that is part of their math dept, but it'd be better to have a "PDE for Finance" class. I'd also like to see classes in stat arb, algo trading, etc.


I hope this helps. If there's any other Stevens students out there, please share your experiences.

[Ahmad Arif]

* They need more courses geared specifically to FE. For example, they have a class in PDE that is part of their math dept, but it'd be better to have a "PDE for Finance" class. I'd also like to see classes in stat arb, algo trading, etc.


I am new to FE. I want to know more about the FE curriculum. In addition, I can only pursue an online degree. What would you recommend for candidate like me who has an accounting background?.

[MikeK]

I am new to FE. I want to know more about the FE curriculum. In addition, I can only pursue an online degree. What would you recommend for candidate like me who has an accounting background?.

The best thing to do is go to the websites of various programs--Baruch, NYU, Columbia, etc. They all post their curriculum and you can see how they differ. However, if you can ONLY do an online degree, you are pretty limited. Columbia has an online degree, I think. Stevens allows you to take some courses on their WebCampus, but I'm not sure you can complete an entire FE degree that way. Another option, if you can only do online programs, is to look into the CQF program: Certificate in Quantitative Finance (http://www.7city.com/cqf.php?area=quants&outline=cqf&course=cqf). There are a lot of threads on this already; I'm not familiar with it but remember reading about it. Good luck.