Is laptop a must-have item to study in the program?

[Andy]

Several students are asking me if they need to buy a laptop. I have conflicting answers from people in the program.

Some say that there is no need, there are available computers throughout campus to use.

Some say that you should get a laptop, especially when you are a full-time student, so you can do assignments on it everywhere and to use it during the final.

I have a laptop so I need no answer. For me, it's inseparable and has helped me tremendously during my study in graduate school.

This is the reply by Prof. Dan Stefanica
When I taught 9821 two years ago, of the 38 students taking the in-class midterm, 26 had the codes they wrote on their laptops. That was very useful for them.

There is not laptop requirement, but I think it is a useful tool (and people do not necessarily need the fastest gadget to do the work).

We would like to hear more from all of you, specially current students.

[RussianMike]

I'm thinking of getting a laptop. I think Baruch students get offers discounts on Dell products. Forgot link, when I find I'll try and post it

[Andy]

I'm thinking of getting a laptop. I think Baruch students get offers discounts on Dell products. Forgot link, when I find I'll try and post it
Mike,
I think the link you mentioned is this (http://www.baruch.cuny.edu/bctc/SpecialAppleandDellPricingforBaruchFacultyStaffStudents.htm)

The discount they provides pales in comparison with others you could find via deal boards like www.slickdeals.net or www.fatwallet.com/c/18/

If I can, I'll try to prevent anyone from buying a Dell. Friends don't let friends buy Dell.Dude, you not getting a Dell :D

This is from my personal experience and from fixing many of my friends', relatives' Dell. There are reasons Dell laptops are so much cheaper than other brands. I have used several Dell laptops, desktops, HP, Compaq, Sony and even built my own desktops from scratches.

I would personally vouch for IBM Thinkpad laptops, even the old machines. I'm using a 5-year old Thinkpad T23 model and it runs perfectly and surprisingly well. I'm planning to upgrade to a T60 model later this year.

If you want to get a Thinkpad, send me a PM, I can get you a discount.

[Andy]

For those thinking of getting a IBM/Levono Thinkpad. There is a pdf file called Tabook that contains every detail about every model currently for sale. You may not see the model you want online or in store but you can call IBM and order them directly.

Here is the link for Tabook.pdf (ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/pc/pcinstitute/psref/tabook.pdf)

I recommend the T models, anything from T42, T43 or T60 is a workhorse.

[Peik Looi]

What are the range of prices for Dell's laptop?

[Andy]

What are the range of prices for Dell's laptop?
While in general I do not encourage my friends to buy Dell laptops (Dell desktop is another issue), if you insist I can tell you that you can get a Dell laptop anywhere from $400 to less than $1000. This is after using rebate, mail-in coupons, special deals, etc

In my humble opinion, Dell laptops are just unbelievably cheap that I have no idea how they make money or quality,reliable machines for that little money.

Here is a prime idea of a Dell laptop after discounts, coupons becomes $391 plus tax. Click here (http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?threadid=248401&postid=2789092#post2789092) to see it.

The best time to buy is just before schools start in Sept. During that time, companies bring out new product lines with discounts, incentives to excite parents to spend.
Max and I have discussed this and as much as he likes to save money, he finally bought an IBM Thinkpad T60 model.

There is a wave of sale among various T60 models now. Here (http://www.fatwallet.com/t/18/614188/) is one example. $999 is a very good deal for a T60 machine. You don't have to worry about your computer frozen during the final week. T thinkpads are designed for business with very high quality control. I can tell this from experience because I'm still using an 5-year old T23 model almost 24/7 and it never gives me any trouble.

If budget is a priority, I think you will wisely choose Dell. If reliability, quality is your top concern, then go for another brand. I would stand behind Thinkpad T models and I heard good things about Fujisu laptops too.
Mac laptops are cute and all but I don't know how easily you can find software for what you need on OSX.

Let me know if I can be of any help, this is the single area I have some experience with.

[jimmycc]

Are laptops required? Not really. But you need a computer at home. There is alot of coding involved especially in the first year, Numerical Linear Algebra and PDE.

Jimmy

[Andy]

Are laptops required? Not really. But you need a computer at home. There is alot of coding involved especially in the first year, Numerical Linear Algebra and PDE.
Jimmy
Thanks Jimmy, this is exactly what you told me before and it makes sense. A computer (not neccessary laptop) is required for everyone in this program to do coding. If you are a fulltime student and stay at school most of the day, you would want to code on your laptop anywhere you want, not having to go to the library (crowded,etc). Also there are software you need but not available on the lab computers.

If you are a part-time student and just go to class after work, I don't think you really need a laptop.

And if you don't have one and don't want to have one, I guess the only solution is to live in the lab. :D

[jimmycc]

There are many computer labs in Baruch. We also have a math computer lab which is very nice; it has MATLAB, MAPLE, Visual C++, BloodShed C++ etc.

The main one is open till very late, but the rest of the computer labs close around 7:30 pm. If the math lab is needed after hours, one can find Prof Stefanica, and he will open the math lab.

NOTE THAT THE MAIN COMPUTER LAB MAY NOT HAVE A C++ COMPILER.

=================================================

Software needed on your computer
-------------------------------------------
1) C++ compiler

a. I used this one, and it's free and good:

http://www.bloodshed.net/devcpp.html


b. Visual C++ 2005 Express is free as well. I never used it, but it should be good:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/


2) Microsoft Excel

You should be surprised; but, it is one of the most powerful and productive development environments. It is heavily used in the structured finance and risk mgmt classes. Industry uses Excel heavily. And forget about OpenOFfice; the VBA language in Excel is proprietary - so, there is no transfer.

I am not sure, but I think the Mac version of Excel may not be 100% comptaible with the Windows version (in terms of VBA functions and coding), but I could be wrong.



Jimmy

[Andy]

Jimmy,

Thanks for your valuable contribution. I hope to see more of your posts in the near future. =D>

[RussianMike]

Valuable indeed. I guess I will hold-off buying a laptop until September as I do have a computer at home.

[Andy]

Just food for thought. This is a quote from CMU program regarding the laptop.
All MSCF degree students are required to have a laptop computer available for use for the duration of the MSCF program. A fully supported, laptop computer, pre-loaded with the software needed for the MSCF program and configured for either wireless or Ethernet access to the internet and CMU networks, is available for purchase through the MSCF program.

Even there is no such requirement at Baruch and there are hundred of computers on campus, having a laptop will definitely give you an edge and in this competitive program, you will need every inch of it.

[Andy]

So as we prepare to enter the program, what kind of programs you installed on your laptop/desktop? If you think there are some essential softwares we all need to get, please share.
On my laptop, I have installed these
Programming: Dev-C++ IDE
Visual Studio C++ 2005
Matlab
ExcelEditor
Emacs
Miktex

[alain]

NO Emacs... I'm a VI guy :D

[Andy]

NO Emacs... I'm a VI guy :DI'm not surprised :D you are a Unix guy while I'm a Linux guy ;-)
Kidding aside, what other softwares we should install on our computer?

[alain]

Andy,

I'm installing Ubuntu this weekend on my desktop at home. What software do you have installed on it? What packages do you recommend?

This is what I have installed in my laptop (Win XP):

- Cygwin development with all bells and whistles
- Visual Studio .Net 2003
- Matlab 5.0
- MS Office XP
- Rational Application Developer 6.0 (Java Development)
- TortoiseCVS (Source Control)
- MikTeX

[Andy]

Alain,
On my Ubuntu drive, I have
Anjuta (for C++ development)
Emacs (latex and coding)
Compiz and Xgl (eye candy, vista effect)
Matlab (model validation, financial package, calculation)
Open office
Thunderbird (email)
Firefox (browser) + several plugins (adblock, customizegoogle,etc)
other audio/video software
Gaim chat client

[Andy]

Andy,
I'm installing Ubuntu this weekend on my desktop at home. What software do you have installed on it? What packages do you recommend?
So how has it gone? Did you get Ubuntu to work to your liking?

[alain]

I have Ubuntu working on my old desktop. So far it is ok. Anjuta works but is not compiling my programs. I can use it to edit the code but I have to compile outside on a terminal window using make or g++.

I'm using make all the time now because it is fairly easy after you get the hang of it.

[Andy]

Alain, I think the problem with anjuta not compiling is you didn't install build-essentials package. You can type sudo apt-get install build-essentials
These are the packages you need to compile. let me know how it goes

[alain]

Alain, I think the problem with anjuta not compiling is you didn't install build-essentials package. You can type sudo apt-get install build-essentials
These are the packages you need to compile. let me know how it goes

Thanks Andy. I was able to install that package. The real name is build-essential. After that installation everything works. How did you figure that out? I like Ubuntu so far. I was thinking about creating an Ubuntu server now.

[Andy]

Thanks Andy. I was able to install that package. The real name is build-essential. After that installation everything works. How did you figure that out?When you mentioned you couldn't compile, I knew right away that you are missing build-essential package because that's the very first package I installed everytime I build my Ubuntu box. It's called essential because you can't compile or build anything without it.
I'm glad you got it working. Have fun with Ubuntu.

[Andy]

To bring back this old topic, everyone has a laptop or plans to have one soon?
Prof. Stefanica mentions that he allows students to bring laptops with their code into his Numerical Linear Algebra/Financial Instruments finals so they can use the code they develop during the semester to work on problems.

I assume his classes won't be in a computer lab so you won't have access to your code online. And I'm not sure what others do without a laptop during the final. Do they do all the bond/interest pricing by hand? :smt027

[Hien]

Mac laptops are cute and all but I don't know how easily you can find software for what you need on OSX.


Mac these days are pretty decent in terms of price/performance...and the whole total cost of ownership thing. Pretty much all of Macs machines (laptops/desktop/subdesktops/servers) are all using Intel chips now. So you CAN also install and boot up Windows/Linux if you'd like. I have a Mac laptop for almost 4 years now *without* a single issue. I don't even have to shutdown my laptop, all I need to do is close the lid, and when I open it 1/2 hour, a day later, it immediately comes back (no need to wait for it to boot up, etc.)

Don't forget that you get all the cool apps to play with your songs/pictures/digital movies that come completely free with the computer.

Mac OS X is Unix based so you get all the tools necessary for unix developmet, vi, emacs, c++ compiler (gnu), java, python, ruby, subversion, the whole nine yards. It also comes with XCode IDE, which is the a C++ development environment just like Visual C++, except, again that it comes pre-installed (free) with the computer. I think there's also versions of Mathematica, MathLab, Maple for Mac OSX as well.

The entry level MacBook is a *beautiful* 13" widescreen laptop, Wi-Fi (wireless), Ethernet, Blue-tooth (to connect to your phone) ready and comes with all the softwares that I describe, and costs $1049 (with the student discount). The regular price is $1099. Below is a snippet of the specs from Apple.com

Oh, there are also alot of cool features in the upcoming version of Mac OS X (Leopard), which is the reason I'm holding out on buying a MacBook right now....it's going to be just awesome!

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wo/2.RSLID?mco=A4791B5D&nclm=MacBook

Intel Duo Core processor
Built-in Isight (webcam to be used as video chat/conference)
FontRow / Apple Remote (to be used as a media center with your TV)
13.3-inch widescreen display
1280 x 800 resolution
1.83GHz Intel Core Duo1
512MB memory (2x256MB SODIMMs)
60GB 5400-rpm Serial ATA hard drive2
Combo drive (DVD-ROM, CD-RW)

[maxrum]

I have an Apple Power Mac desktop. It's a very reliable machine. However, it has a limited set of business applications. If you want to install Windows onto the new intel-based Mac, you should consider that neither Apple nor Microsoft will support this installation. As a result, if you have any problems with it you have to solve them by yourself.

[Hien]

True...it's an option you can play around with. I haven't used Windows at home since I got my Mac since everything I need is on it.

[woody]

Has anyone with an Intel Mac tried Parallels? I'm thinking of giving it a try.

http://www.parallels.com/

Although, I'm not sure if I'll need Windows at all. Currenly I only use it at home if I need to run SAS.

[Hien]

Has anyone with an Intel Mac tried Parallels? I'm thinking of giving it a try.

http://www.parallels.com/

Although, I'm not sure if I'll need Windows at all. Currenly I only use it at home if I need to run SAS.

I haven't used it myself but heard good things about it. Do you own a MacBook? if so, how do you like it?

[woody]

I haven't used it myself but heard good things about it. Do you own a MacBook? if so, how do you like it?

I will finally replace my 2 4-year old Macs and my 6 year old PC with a black MacBook in then next few weeks (waiting to see if they put the new Merom processor in there). A guy at works has the black MacBook and loves it.

[Hien]

I haven't used it myself but heard good things about it. Do you own a MacBook? if so, how do you like it?

I will finally replace my 2 4-year old Macs and my 6 year old PC with a black MacBook in then next few weeks (waiting to see if they put the new Merom processor in there). A guy at works has the black MacBook and loves it.

That's awesome. You must be very exited now, aren't you? I'm holding out on buying a bit for Leopard and hoping there will be an update to MacBook. Here's a link to other peoples' feed back on Parallel. http://www.tuaw.com/2006/08/08/new-parallels-desktop-beta-enables-better-usb-performance-inte/#comments

[Andy]

I will finally replace my 2 4-year old Macs and my 6 year old PC with a black MacBook in then next few weeks (waiting to see if they put the new Merom processor in there). Woody, will you bring it to school so we can take a look at your prized toy? :smt027

[woody]

Woody, will you bring it to school so we can take a look at your prized toy? :smt027

Of course I will bring it to class to show off :)

btw, I use a ThinkPad at work and if I had to purchase a Windows laptop, that's what I'd get. Maybe that small one.

[Andy]

Really guys, Mac and Win laptops are so interchangeable now that it only depends on what software are vital to you.
I follow http://www.osx86project.org/ for a while and it seems like you can install MacOS on any x86 PC. This nullifies the elusiveness of Mac, don't you think?

[woody]

Not to change this discussion into one of Mac, but here is another solution for running Windows applications on Mac. Wine has been known in the Linux community for a while. The good: you don't need a copy of Windows and don't have to run Windows at all. The bad: only certain applications are supported.

http://www.codeweavers.com/products/

[Andy]

Not to change this discussion into one of Mac,Yes, please don't :smt027
So back to the original question, does everyone have a laptop and bring it to school to take midterm, etc? Everyone I talked to seems to have one laptop. So i guess the question is how best to utilize it.

[pardasani]

well i have used a mac with the boot camp and it rocks!!!... when it boots up it asks you the option to choose windows or mac, something like grub in linux, and the windows programms running well... i played the vlc media player, the age of empires, and microsoft office but no problem at all....

Has anyone with an Intel Mac tried Parallels? I'm thinking of giving it a try.

http://www.parallels.com/

Although, I'm not sure if I'll need Windows at all. Currenly I only use it at home if I need to run SAS.

[Yuriy]

I don't think laptop is a must-have :) but it is certainly a good idea to buy one. I have a 15" wide-screen Dell laptop and so far like it. I used to have an HP Compaq but something related to the display broke down and the only way to repair was to get a new display, which cost like a new laptop :) I will see how Dell will handle problems (if I have any).

Someone mentioned CMU's requirement for a laptop. Their requirement is partially due to the fact that they have a software that can read what professor is writing on the board in real-time (useful when professor is in Pittsburgh and you are in New York).

[naeron]

guys dont buy dell... they are cheap though but very heavy. go for lighter laptops..

[Yuriy]

It depends on how you use it. I don't carry mine around every day, but take it with me when I travel (instead of carrying the desktop) :)

[Andy]

guys dont buy dell... they are cheap though but very heavy. go for lighter laptops..
:smt006 :smt006 :smt006

[Yuriy]

Any other disadvantages of Dell besides that it is a couple of grams heavier? :)
It is fine with me that it is heavier if I can save a couple of hundred dollars :)

[bob]

My $0.02 on matters discussed in this thread:
(1)Buy a laptop.
Get something reasonably fast, equipped with Office and an IDE that does C++. I've found that a simple but reasonably flexible graphing calculator application (one comes bundled with Mac OSX, don't know about Windows) can come in handy at times also.

There's just so much coding in the program, or Excel work at a minimum, and you'll want to be able to carry it with you easily. While you're at it, get an external hard drive and make regular backups.

(2)Don't buy a Dell.
Made this mistake once in buying a laptop for my wife (then fiancee); thankfully, she consented to marry me anyway. It was too little machine for the OS they shipped it with, and when I tried to upgrade, I discovered they had taken up both memory ports with the smallest SIMMs they could find, so I had to buy two new chunks of memory, not just one, and throw the old ones away. If you must go this direction, be very careful about what you're buying.

My wife's next laptop after the Dell was a teeny-tiny Sony Vaio that she likes as much as anyone can like a machine whose OS was written by Microsoft.

(3)Don't dismiss Macs.
For some reason they've been passe in scientific computing circles, but I've been an Apple guy since my family got a II+ in 19 something-something. They rule. The OS is UNIX-based, and it's written by the same company that makes the hardware, so they're orders of magnitude more stable than PC's. I confess to liking the fact that the OS is simpler; with far fewer tweaking options available, it's possible to actually find what you want in short order. Anyone who's ever installed a new piece of hardware on both a PC and a Mac is just downright deluded if they deny that the overall execution of Mac OS is better.

Macs come with a free full-featured downloadable IDE that does C++, Java, and Python. They use the public-domain GCC compiler for C++, so the code you generate is quite portable. Thanks to their (distant) second market position, they're virtually virus-free and have been forced all along to communicate quite well with PCs. The support you get, if you do have a problem, is absolutely unparalleled. The one time I did have a problem with my current Mac (some bad third-party memory), I made an appointment at the Genius Bar down in SoHo and got free support that saved all the material on my hard drive. (At that point, I needed another Mac to be able to pull the material off my hard drive, so obviously phone support would not have done the trick.) I still sort of can't believe they didn't charge me for it.

At the top of my to-do list once I have a full-time job is to pick up one of the new Intel-based Macs with Boot Camp. I'm really looking forward to the day when Macs run Windows-based applications faster than PCs do.

[Andy]

Any other disadvantages of Dell besides that it is a couple of grams heavier? :)
It is fine with me that it is heavier if I can save a couple of hundred dollars :)
Where do we start with Dell ? A simple "Dell s****" google will yield countless stories on that.
It's ironic that Nalin is the person who discourages people from buying Dell. When he asked me for advice on laptop to buy last year, I told him not to buy Dell. I said to buy a Thinkpad instead.
I'm sure the affordability of Dell has everything to do with his final decision ;)

I had Dell, Compaq, Thinkpaq laptops and of the three, IBM is the most durable and lightest. IBM is more expensive to start with but it's built for business audience. Dell is the cheapest but it built for cost-concious crowd.
I took my laptop to school everyday and it was a terrible experience with Dell. It's really heavy. It's not grams heavier but pounds heavier. When you carry it days in and out, it makes a HUGE difference.

I was so glad it broke after 1 year. The LCD connector got loose, then the LCD die, etc...many problems with Dell. Oh, it got so hot too :D

[alain]

Dell is not a bad company as long as you buy the right Dell Laptop. Dell sells two lines of laptops. The crappy one that most people buy "Inspiron" and the good one that most business buy "Latitude". If for any reason you need to buy a dell, buy a Latitude and you won't be disappointed but be ready to fork out some cash. They are not cheap.

I'm very close to jump to the dark side and buy a Mac. Woody has me almost convinced to get one. There are couple of things I don't like about them but those are personal preference.

My recommendation is very simple. If you need to buy a Windows laptop, buy a ThinkPad. They are workhorses. If you have the money and don't want to carry the weight around, buy a Panasonic Toubhbook CF-Y5. These things are really light (3.7lbs), reasonably powerful, and have some other benefits: kind of drop resistant and water resistant among other things... however, they will put back $2000+

[Andy]

I'm very close to jump to the dark side and buy a Mac. Woody has me almost convinced to get one. There are couple of things I don't like about them but those are personal preference.
While you are at it, you may as well get a pink iPod, iPhone and iTivi. :D
Seriously, what happened to you, Alain ?

If you want to get a Mac just to use the operating system, I'm sure you didn't know about OSx86 project.
OSx86 Project | InsanelyMac (http://www.osx86project.org/)

People have been running Mac OS on PC for awhile now. With Apple going to replace their PowerPC hardware with Intel-based, it doesn't make sense to get a new Mac just to use the OS.

Install Ubuntu or OSx86 and you have everything you want.

[Andy]

I'm very close to jump to the dark side and buy a Mac. Woody has me almost convinced to get one. There are couple of things I don't like about them but those are personal preference.
Alain,
Here are some writing by a guy who is a Sony user, bought a Mac and live to tell his story. I think it may be of some use to you.
All,

I have been following the Mac with Windows vs a IBM PC for some time, and I fell I can offer my views as I have expericened at first hand the mac vs PC debate.

After owning a Sony Vaio for 6 years and being very happy with it, it started to get cranky and the hard disk was very noisy. Not wanting to a risk a rebuild and leaving myself without a PC (I'm working abroad) I decided to look around for options. I had kept looking at Macs, and was persuded by the perceived quality and the build quality. Once the Intel Macs were able to boot into Windows XP, I was convinced and purchased a black Core 2 Duo Macbook with 2GB Ram and had XP loaded using bootcamp.

At first all was well, loved the quality of the webcam (Skype sessions back home were excellent, but hated the lack of right mosue click, the lack of dedicated delete / backspace keys (only one or the other) and frankly hated the feel of the keyboard, which I never got used to.

Once I had it, it developed a fault where if powered down, on power up the backlight would be off. Try navigating to the control panel without the backilight. After numerous power resets and hardware resets it may start working again, but after a power down, the whole thing would start again. After it let me down on 3 Asia and UK trips, I cried enough, and whilst in UK, brought a Z61T.

What a difference! Excellent keyboard, card reader, reasonable webcam, superb build quality. I love this machine.

In fact I love it so much, I went out and brought a X60 as well for travelling! (Just wish it had a webcam built in)

SO, in summary I realise now I am a Windows guy, and the Mac maybe a great OSX machine, but in my opinion it's a lousy PC.

(PS - rebuilt the Sony, which is now great again, so I could have avoided the whole pain! - But very happy to be a Thinkpad convert)